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burning wrote:
TheMohawkNinja wrote:
That is my argument... they were mods when they were free, not when they cost money. The money rolled in when they became standalone games.


So... you're supporting my statements, not arguing against them. Okay then.


No... I am arguing against if (according to your first statement), you are okay with MODS being non-free. The statements I said don't support your argument, unless you don't like the idea of mods being non-free (by which case, your first statement makes no sense).


Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 pm
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I was wondering about steam part. If the admin were to connect with steam, wouldn't it limit some of the other people fetish? Wouldn't it also limit the admin free will of controlling his or her game?


Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:13 pm
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TheMohawkNinja wrote:
burning wrote:
TheMohawkNinja wrote:
That is my argument... they were mods when they were free, not when they cost money. The money rolled in when they became standalone games.


So... you're supporting my statements, not arguing against them. Okay then.


No... I am arguing against if (according to your first statement), you are okay with MODS being non-free. The statements I said don't support your argument, unless you don't like the idea of mods being non-free (by which case, your first statement makes no sense).


Ah, I see. You're making a distinction between them being mods and being stand-alone games. I don't really see it that way. Making them stand-alone games wasn't what added value to them. Making them entirely new games was. Hell, when I launch TF2, I'm still launching hl.exe.
Maybe a better example would be Garry's Mod.


Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:25 pm
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Piperpeeper wrote:
I was wondering about steam part. If the admin were to connect with steam, wouldn't it limit some of the other people fetish? Wouldn't it also limit the admin free will of controlling his or her game?


I think we've covered this pretty well, but maybe in another thread: Steam will not allow any adult titles, regardless of fetishes.


Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:28 pm
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I don't see much "charging for mods" to come. I'd understand if a mod maker were to spend many hours designing a new character from scratch, all the mapping, rigs ect... that person would like to see that time pay off. but its unlikely something that will happen. As someone in this thread already said. "it will be pirated" If you WERE to try to sell a model designed for this game, I'd think renderosity would be your best established venue at the moment.
Look at game like minecraft that only is still popular because of all its free mods. If someone were to make a mod that isn't free someone else typically takes that mod tweaks it and distributes it free somewhere else. If you want to make money on your models make a website and make your items good enough to profit from the advertising on your site. Selling a non tangible item successfully is always a challenge, but those with money on the mind will find a way to profit from the free distribution of said item.


Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:23 am
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Nautica wrote:
I don't see much "charging for mods" to come. I'd understand if a mod maker were to spend many hours designing a new character from scratch, all the mapping, rigs ect... that person would like to see that time pay off. but its unlikely something that will happen. As someone in this thread already said. "it will be pirated" If you WERE to try to sell a model designed for this game, I'd think renderosity would be your best established venue at the moment.
Look at game like minecraft that only is still popular because of all its free mods. If someone were to make a mod that isn't free someone else typically takes that mod tweaks it and distributes it free somewhere else. If you want to make money on your models make a website and make your items good enough to profit from the advertising on your site. Selling a non tangible item successfully is always a challenge, but those with money on the mind will find a way to profit from the free distribution of said item.


Piracy is an overstated problem. As has been unequivocally proven*, if you price something right, people will pay that price even if they can get it for free. The people who do pirate it never would have bought it in the first place. If you don't make it available to them for some arbitrary reason (only accept Paypal, but they can't use Paypal in their country), they'll pirate it.
I won't say that piracy has NO impact on sales, only that people can surprise you with their willingness to pay for something even if they can get it for free. Hell, how many folks have donated to this game? More than zero, I'm sure. People do see the value in things and put a price on that value, which translates into money. We agree on this point, as you point out an example of how someone can make money with a mod. But that's not the only way, and I'm sure that if a talented mod maker prices his mod right, it will sell.
A bigger problem is plagiarism - taking something someone else made and claiming it as your own. I've seen this happen with 3D models. I've seen it happen with skins for the Sims. The resulting shitstorm usually ends with the original creator withdrawing from the community because the other person had more convincing evidence. The lesson here is to protect your work: make backups throughout your creation process so that later on you can say, "You stole from me. Not only do I have evidence yours is a copy, but here's a mountain of evidence proving that mine came first." I've seen that happen exactly once (with fiction writing.) It was an epic curb stomp.
So, yeah, as long as they protect themselves and price the mod right, mod makers will be able to make money. But first they'll have to prove they can make a mod worth buying, which means releasing some free stuff.

*Lews C.K., Trent Reznor, Radiohead, Pixel Piracy, and more. Reznor actively encourages fans to steal his music if the fans don't like the price, distributes his new stuff himself for $5, and makes more than he did with the studios. Radiohead told people to pay what they wanted and the album was pirated like crazy. They still made more off it than they had their previous album. Lewis C.K. did something similar and reaped similar benefits. Pixel Piracy's developers linked directly to a torrent of their own game. It doesn't seem to have hurt their sales any. I have a book (No, I'm not outing myself publicly here) that is in a pirated ebooks collection. I can't count the sales I haven't gotten, only the ones I have. And it's a lot. Hell, I've given it away for free and got sales as a result.


Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:46 pm
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burning wrote:
[quote= A WHOLE LOT OF WORDS


Yeah I've done some research on it myself. I don't typically pirate things, I use steam for all my real gaming. paypal for adult games and ebay. Although there is one company i hate enough to pirate a game from, the Sims (EA/maxxis). That i'll pirate. and all the sims games from here on because fuck EA Games. They put out 1/4 of a complete game and sell you the rest in "expansions" and "stuff packs" for just as much as you pay for the first overpriced 1/4 of a game. greedy bastards. put over $500 into the sims 2 overall. pirated the sims 3+ all expansions and Full disclosure i just downloaded the sims 4 today, just waiting for the crack to come out. And I once pirated xpadder like 4 years ago because i was broke and needed a keybinding program. it was a great little program which i use to this day. made by 1 honest hardworking guy who accepted paypal and only wanted $10 a copy. so once i had a little money, i bought it twice. didn't have to re-download it or anything i already had it. just gave the dev the money he deserved. Support what you love. weed out the filth by not paying their shitty companies shit. That's just about every pirates motto. Be a respectable company that doesn't fuck its customers up the ass with no lube and put out a good product, you can't fail.


Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:04 pm
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After following the Thread for a few days now, it seems to me that nearby everybody is willing to pay for high quality stuff.
Maybe it is the best choice to provide a community platform to the people where they are able to donate some money to the modders they like. Making all stuff for free and not forcing anybody to spend money often results in people beeing more generous if they may set the value for something by themselves.
The Platform could show to the user how much other people donated (sum and mean value) to the content, to increase transparency.
Still i think it is a good idea to introduce some "community money". A user should be able to charge his account with a few dollars which he easily can allocate to donations. I also think the dev should get a percentage of every donation, because without his affort the whole thing wouldnt exist.
Maybe money earned by donations will exceed money made by selling the game. At this Point the Dev might even set the Game itself for free to attract more potential donors and therefore also more modders.

To get back to the point of pirating content from other modders, its likely this will happen. Thats the main reason why the community platform should exist. If a modder uploads content, it is a prove that he developed it. Everyone who uploads it afterwards very likely is not the original author...
Today it is quite easy to identify stolen digital content. Skins could be validated by their histogram, script code can be parsed for used codeblocks (excluding comments and unused fucntions) and even models have their fingerprint. If someone alters the original files to cover his theft, the community will finaly uncover the truth...


Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:33 am
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I agree with Rezzabae, donations is the way to go with these kind of things ( the mods that is )


Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:16 am
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rezzabae wrote:
To get back to the point of pirating content from other modders, its likely this will happen. Thats the main reason why the community platform should exist. If a modder uploads content, it is a prove that he developed it. Everyone who uploads it afterwards very likely is not the original author...
Today it is quite easy to identify stolen digital content. Skins could be validated by their histogram, script code can be parsed for used codeblocks (excluding comments and unused fucntions) and even models have their fingerprint. If someone alters the original files to cover his theft, the community will finaly uncover the truth...


It's not as if i don't agree with most of this idea, i like the idea of having a place for modders to upload content. But i think this should be done right here on the xmoons forums. A place to share like xpadmin said. I don't want some sort of integrated marketplace DRM type of thing going on. almost always does that just create more problems for users and pushes piracy because those become the only copies that content that work for most people. A standalone game should be just that. No need to connect to the internet to check every mod installed. Firewalls and antivirus programs tend not to like that. The admin already spoke of his plans on this thread so we already know that's not going to be the case.

Also creating an entire marketplace requires people to moderate and be sure that marketplace isn't being compromised. personally i prefer an opened sharing platform as opposed to a fake money marketplace. I think the devs should take this game and sell it for between $30 and $60, they can make models that can be added into the game and charge per a model as well. buy wgat you like and don't buy what you don't. Have a seprate part of the forum for mods made by players. If one of those modders want money for his item he can sell it on rederosity or his own personal website and link it here on the "mods" section of the forum along with a description and screenshots. No marketplace, no game ruining DRM all is well with the world. If you want proof you own something, make it first and show it often. simple and easy.


Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:47 pm
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