View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:27 pm



Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Opninions on speed of development and vaporware speculation 
Author Message
Rank 8
Rank 8

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:24 pm
Posts: 38
Basic stuff is things you do early on in development but we are talking about a project running for more than a year already at least and it sounds as if they are still stuck in the very early beginnings not even close to designing a 'game'. What milestones have been reached so far, are there any at all? When I see this random list of features (of the engine) I can't see any progress at all as it is basically the same as posted here back in September. This is not exactly what we as customers would like to read - I mean we are not talking about some freeware project here.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:44 pm
Profile
Rank 12
Rank 12

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:02 pm
Posts: 95
john_0815 wrote:
I mean we are not talking about some freeware project here.

Oh? How much did you pay for version 4.0?


Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:13 pm
Profile
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:41 pm
Posts: 12
I think everyone needs to calm down. I would rather them take the time to come out with an awesome product then a half ass one. In the mean time, find another adult game to play and they will post when they would like. I am sure they are taking care of business. Its all good. I just wish I had the abilities to create a game like this. Steep learning curve. Keep up the great work guys and please don't get deterred from any negative comments.


Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:47 am
Profile
Rank 16
Rank 16
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:51 pm
Posts: 306
Some people seem to underestimate the amount of work that goes into a physics capable 3d game engine.

The same people seem to be unable to grasp the idea that someone wants to create something great (probably mostly using their free time) without getting a lot of monetary compensation (it's called a hobby)


Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:29 pm
Profile
Rank 8
Rank 8

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:24 pm
Posts: 38
Thanny wrote:
john_0815 wrote:
I mean we are not talking about some freeware project here.

Oh? How much did you pay for version 4.0?

sorry didn't know v4.0 will come for free :roll:.
I mean, just repeating the same info as 6 months ago as 'status update' might not be enough to keep potential customers interested...


Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:48 pm
Profile
Rank 10
Rank 10

Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 11:08 pm
Posts: 64
Meh, either it will come out or it won't, either they will finish it or they won't. No biggie.

I find it admirable that they don't want to do crowd funding, because they don't have anything, yet, to give to people. I'm in no hurry, it isn't my game.


Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:05 pm
Profile
Rank 9
Rank 9

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 49
JoeStIdes wrote:
Meh, either it will come out or it won't, either they will finish it or they won't. No biggie.

I find it admirable that they don't want to do crowd funding, because they don't have anything, yet, to give to people. I'm in no hurry, it isn't my game.


They did do crowd funding already for the project on Offbeater. It was successful if I remember correctly, Offbeater is dead now though I think they got all their money before that happened. If something else happened contrary to that, I wasn't told. But there are some people who have supported the game up to many versions besides 4.0 and expect to get what they paid for as supporters. I've only paid for what was made so far and am pretty happy with it.

I'm overall impressed with what they have so far but everything needs work and optimization. Also, physics in real time is hard.

IIT0NE wrote:
xpadmin wrote:
Most of the work is building the game engine. This includes things like:

- Physics based lighting
- etc...

All in all a lot of work but *1 not very interesting unless you are a programmer.

Next to this we are doing a lot of research into different areas like:
- Skin physics
- etc...

So on one hand we are building a game engine (*2 basic stuff) and *3 doing research into more interesting areas that are more game specific.

*4 When the game engine is more or less finished and we are building the more interesting stuff 5* it will also be easier to post more regularly on the progress.


*1: I gather this game isn't your livelihood or a way to make a living. Who wants to do uninteresting work, that they don't enjoy during their time at home? If the work that you're doing isn't very interesting, why don't you farm that work out to programmers? This will leave you to concentrate on stuff you find more fun.
As a freelance graphic designer, I find myself farming out plenty of coding work to CSS and Java experts (not only do I find it intensely boring, I'm also not very good at it). I'm sure, with the network you've built through releasing the last few revisions of this game, there are programmers out there willing to help. Possibly for free!

*2: If the "basic stuff" is basic, why is it taking so long?

*3: "Doing research into more interesting areas" whether more game specific or not, sounds a little open-ended. I tell clients that I'm putting research into their branding, when really, all I'm doing is making best-guess assumptions, based on marketing trends within the sectors of business my clients place themselves in, then collating that information to cast a broad(ish) net to capture the attention of the clients' target audience.

*4: So, do you mean when the game engine is more finished or less finished? This is important to know. We'd also like to know a rough time frame as to when that might be :)

*5: What do you mean it will be easier to post more regularly? Do you find it difficult to login to this forum, upload some images or type a few lines for a weekly blog update? Personally, all this is beginning to sound like you guys have bitten off more than you could chew with this project (I really hope not, as you've made a huge leap forward for adult gaming so far).

I really hope you manage to find a way to organize, collaborate and work smarter (not harder) with your team, this whole project sounded great over a year ago. I'm guessing it's a team, anyway. I've heard of lone modders out there doing some great work with games in a short time span, and I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up, but don't you agree that it might be time to expand the team? Maybe find some rich guy into adult entertainment that would be willing to front you some capital so you could focus on this as a business venture? That way, you could all pay yourselves a decent salary for doing "not very interesting" work (or farming it out).


I have this feeling you are not speaking from game development experience but personal experience and a desire to validate your opinion by challenging another point of view with your own experiences rather than understanding it through empathy. I'm gathering you must have put a lot of money into the project so far or you wouldn't be so salty.

Aside from everything else you said that I don't agree with... Don't compare modding with development. It's apples and oranges. The only reason a modder can pump out consistent content is that the world they operate in has been created for them and with modern game development, modding is almost a main feature and just about has to have some level of community support from the developer. That's not to say modders are not talented but you give them way too much credit by using them in your argument.


I dunno... Just seems like a lot of people here who complain have no idea what they are talking about. They always talk as if they know what's best for the end user like they pretend they are XMoon's marketing reps or something. Then again if they paid during the Offbeater campaign and aren't getting what they were promised when it was promised, they probably have room to complain just like any investor would. The other thing I'm getting is that people hear an idea, talk about it so much together, that they really like and let themselves become so in love with it they eventually feel they are entitled to it. Even when it's some dumb porn game.


Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:17 am
Profile
Rank 11
Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 68
guymanyo wrote:
JoeStIdes wrote:
Meh, either it will come out or it won't, either they will finish it or they won't. No biggie.

I find it admirable that they don't want to do crowd funding, because they don't have anything, yet, to give to people. I'm in no hurry, it isn't my game.


They did do crowd funding already for the project on Offbeater. It was successful if I remember correctly, Offbeater is dead now though I think they got all their money before that happened. If something else happened contrary to that, I wasn't told. But there are some people who have supported the game up to many versions besides 4.0 and expect to get what they paid for as supporters. I've only paid for what was made so far and am pretty happy with it.

I'm overall impressed with what they have so far but everything needs work and optimization. Also, physics in real time is hard.

IIT0NE wrote:
xpadmin wrote:
Most of the work is building the game engine. This includes things like:

- Physics based lighting
- etc...

All in all a lot of work but *1 not very interesting unless you are a programmer.

Next to this we are doing a lot of research into different areas like:
- Skin physics
- etc...

So on one hand we are building a game engine (*2 basic stuff) and *3 doing research into more interesting areas that are more game specific.

*4 When the game engine is more or less finished and we are building the more interesting stuff 5* it will also be easier to post more regularly on the progress.


*1: I gather this game isn't your livelihood or a way to make a living. Who wants to do uninteresting work, that they don't enjoy during their time at home? If the work that you're doing isn't very interesting, why don't you farm that work out to programmers? This will leave you to concentrate on stuff you find more fun.
As a freelance graphic designer, I find myself farming out plenty of coding work to CSS and Java experts (not only do I find it intensely boring, I'm also not very good at it). I'm sure, with the network you've built through releasing the last few revisions of this game, there are programmers out there willing to help. Possibly for free!

*2: If the "basic stuff" is basic, why is it taking so long?

*3: "Doing research into more interesting areas" whether more game specific or not, sounds a little open-ended. I tell clients that I'm putting research into their branding, when really, all I'm doing is making best-guess assumptions, based on marketing trends within the sectors of business my clients place themselves in, then collating that information to cast a broad(ish) net to capture the attention of the clients' target audience.

*4: So, do you mean when the game engine is more finished or less finished? This is important to know. We'd also like to know a rough time frame as to when that might be :)

*5: What do you mean it will be easier to post more regularly? Do you find it difficult to login to this forum, upload some images or type a few lines for a weekly blog update? Personally, all this is beginning to sound like you guys have bitten off more than you could chew with this project (I really hope not, as you've made a huge leap forward for adult gaming so far).

I really hope you manage to find a way to organize, collaborate and work smarter (not harder) with your team, this whole project sounded great over a year ago. I'm guessing it's a team, anyway. I've heard of lone modders out there doing some great work with games in a short time span, and I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up, but don't you agree that it might be time to expand the team? Maybe find some rich guy into adult entertainment that would be willing to front you some capital so you could focus on this as a business venture? That way, you could all pay yourselves a decent salary for doing "not very interesting" work (or farming it out).


I have this feeling you are not speaking from game development experience but personal experience and a desire to validate your opinion by challenging another point of view with your own experiences rather than understanding it through empathy. I'm gathering you must have put a lot of money into the project so far or you wouldn't be so salty.

Aside from everything else you said that I don't agree with... Don't compare modding with development. It's apples and oranges. The only reason a modder can pump out consistent content is that the world they operate in has been created for them and with modern game development, modding is almost a main feature and just about has to have some level of community support from the developer. That's not to say modders are not talented but you give them way too much credit by using them in your argument.


I dunno... Just seems like a lot of people here who complain have no idea what they are talking about. They always talk as if they know what's best for the end user like they pretend they are XMoon's marketing reps or something. Then again if they paid during the Offbeater campaign and aren't getting what they were promised when it was promised, they probably have room to complain just like any investor would. The other thing I'm getting is that people hear an idea, talk about it so much together, that they really like and let themselves become so in love with it they eventually feel they are entitled to it. Even when it's some dumb porn game.


Well, if you noticed the "salty" comment "I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up...", then you'll see that I'm debating openly, frankly and with the best interests of the team and consumers in mind. Whereas your comment "Even when it's some dumb porn game" shows me that you sir, are the one who in fact has little empathy, if any at all.

I've only paid one subscription for this franchise and, as slow as progress has been (and yes, that irks me) I still think it's a great project! There are very few developers out there who dare to make this kind of thing and they have my respect.

As an Art Director, Senior Graphic Designer (successfully freelancing for 20 years) and as a Marketing Director for multiple high end brands, corporate organizations and independent businesses, publishers and media developers - I'm not 100% percent sure, but I think I might just have a tiny, nagging feeling that I kinda sorta know what I'm talking about. *shrug*.

Thanks for stopping by.


Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:57 pm
Profile
Rank 16
Rank 16
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:51 pm
Posts: 306
Quote:
I might just have a tiny, nagging feeling that I kinda sorta know what I'm talking about. *shrug*.


Sorry, but from a software development perspective you don't. I initially didn't want to discuss all you points, but hey, if you insist:

Quote:
*1: I gather this game isn't your livelihood or a way to make a living. Who wants to do uninteresting work, that they don't enjoy during their time at home? If the work that you're doing isn't very interesting, why don't you farm that work out to programmers? This will leave you to concentrate on stuff you find more fun.
As a freelance graphic designer, I find myself farming out plenty of coding work to CSS and Java experts (not only do I find it intensely boring, I'm also not very good at it). I'm sure, with the network you've built through releasing the last few revisions of this game, there are programmers out there willing to help. Possibly for free!


Who said that developing a physics capable 3d engine is boring to develop? I think xpadmin simply points at the fact that him posting screenshots of 3d shader code debugging wouldn't entertain US - I'm pretty sure HE's got the best time of HIS life working on this.
Unlike with Java and CSS ("coding", cough) there isn't too many people in the world who would be capable to develop said engine. And those are usually rather expensive people with a background in mathematics and physics. Sure there is an odd chance there is somebody else capable of doing it for free, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Quote:
*2: If the "basic stuff" is basic, why is it taking so long?


As I explained before, "basic" as in the foundation for everything - the most complicated part. Imagine you design a logo for a customer and print it out. What do you think took more time and effort and was more complicated, designing and printing the logo or developing and building the printer?

Quote:
*4: So, do you mean when the game engine is more finished or less finished? This is important to know. We'd also like to know a rough time frame as to when that might be :)


When the engine is near completion, work on content starts, once work on content has progressed to a certain point, you can demo that.
You wouldn't send your customers pictures of anything before it has reached a certain quality, would you?

It is incredibly hard to foresee how long things take to develop. This is why for customer projects agile/scrum is a thing. Usually you know how long it takes when you are done implementing it. Also, there is a thing called "feature creep", developers get new ideas for things while working on the project and those new features take time to implement.

Yes, commercial product development has it's time frames (which are also rarely kept, btw.) but the approach here is that they leave (sometimes major) features or much needed polishing away to make the deadline (this is not something you want as a customer)

Quote:
*5: What do you mean it will be easier to post more regularly? Do you find it difficult to login to this forum, upload some images or type a few lines for a weekly blog update? Personally, all this is beginning to sound like you guys have bitten off more than you could chew with this project (I really hope not, as you've made a huge leap forward for adult gaming so far).


You can't show off a game engine with videos / screenshots well until it's like 80% done. XPAdmin already posted some scenery screenshots, I bet he will post girl pics once the engine is in a stage that allows for it. Also I think he probably enjoys coding more than social media.

Quote:
I really hope you manage to find a way to organize, collaborate and work smarter (not harder) with your team, this whole project sounded great over a year ago. I'm guessing it's a team, anyway. I've heard of lone modders out there doing some great work with games in a short time span, and I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up, but don't you agree that it might be time to expand the team? Maybe find some rich guy into adult entertainment that would be willing to front you some capital so you could focus on this as a business venture? That way, you could all pay yourselves a decent salary for doing "not very interesting" work (or farming it out).


2 things:
-For a guy who thinks you find a game physics 3d engine specialist coder that would work for free on the project you seem overly determined that money is the driving factor behind XPAdmins motivations
-You are not getting the complexity of it - Name any adult game (including all of illusions stuff) and XSP 3 still has a more advanced, complex engine -by far. I think you think that because all those point and click / no physics interaction games show up everywhere in a short time that this is somehow on a similar level - it's not.


Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:23 pm
Profile
Rank 7
Rank 7

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:28 am
Posts: 34
@XpAdmin

I think what most of us on the forum would appreciate the most, is regular communication.

Preferably something like every Friday a brief rundown of what they have been working on for the week. Maybe something like a screen shot of you debugging code, or even the team sitting in the office jacking off would suffice. If nothing happened in the week we'd still like to know, a picture of you guys sitting in the pub or on a beach is great.

The main problem is that it's a long term project, and while you may be working your asses off doing "boring stuff", we as a community don't know that, there's no indication that you are doing anything much at all. Believe me when I say that some of us will find the "boring stuff" interesting. It's not much to ask to keep a very loyal fan base placated, it'll take no more than half an hour a week to fill us in, frankly that's time well spent to keep people aware of the project, and keep us hanging around.

It doesn't matter how long the project takes, but you need to keep us up to date, you created the game, and the community. We are interested in how it is going, and it's people like us that will spread knowledge of the game like wildfire when it does finally get done.

So please please, make a new closed pinned thread, and call it Friday update or something. Post a weekly summary for us to stop bitching about vapourware, it'll give us stuff to talk about, and allow us something to actually hype up when it does near completion.


Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:07 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group.
Designed by X-Moon Productions.